windows vista beta

Is there any way for me to become a part of a Windows Vista Beta testing group? I'd really like to try out the new OS and give my feedback.

Right now, the best way is to make a request at http://connect.microsoft.com. You could also wait until the BETA 2 release is released to the public then you can send feed back through the following channels: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
Microsoft BETA Client: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=43655 -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"DieStimme" wrote in message

Is there any way for me to become a part of a Windows Vista Beta testing group? I'd really like to try out the new OS and give my feedback.

The great thing about usenet is that you can speak freely... although the MVPs wont like the following:
You can become a SELF PROCLAIMED beta tester finding the beta on torrent, and then send your feedback here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
I believe in bending the rules when it is of benefit for everyone.
"DieStimme" wrote in message

Is there any way for me to become a part of a Windows Vista Beta testing group? I'd really like to try out the new OS and give my feedback.

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message

Right now, the best way is to make a request at http://connect.microsoft.com. You could also wait until the BETA 2 release is released to the public then you can send feed back through the following channels: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
Microsoft BETA Client: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=43655 -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"DieStimme" wrote in message Is there any way for me to become a part of a Windows Vista Beta testing group? I'd really like to try out the new OS and give my feedback.
I thought top posting was a big NO NO on usenet? Anyways, vista isn't on

connect anymore as far as I can tell.

Microsoft's old boards or whatever they did back in the 1920s was done top-posting style. They carried this over to their newsgroups when newgrouping became the thing and have ever since. So on Microsoft newsgroups the custom is to top-post.
Anywhere else on usenet/newgroups however, one is more likely to see bottom-posting.
In other words, Microsoft is always a top [style], Linux/UNIX and the rest are bottom [style]. Don't go further with this.
michael e dziatkowicz wrote:

"Andre Da Costa [Extended64]" wrote in message Right now, the best way is to make a request at http://connect.microsoft.com. You could also wait until the BETA 2 release is released to the public then you can send feed back through the following channels: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
Microsoft BETA Client: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=43655 -- -- Andre Windows Connected | http://www.windowsconnected.com Extended64 | http://www.extended64.com Blog | http://www.extended64.com/blogs/andre http://spaces.msn.com/members/adacosta
"DieStimme" wrote in message Is there any way for me to become a part of a Windows Vista Beta testing group? I'd really like to try out the new OS and give my feedback.
I thought top posting was a big NO NO on usenet? Anyways, vista isn't on connect anymore as far as I can tell.

Yes but you did not mention that torrents do not come with an activation key and are only good for 14 days. "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

The great thing about usenet is that you can speak freely... although the MVPs wont like the following:
You can become a SELF PROCLAIMED beta tester finding the beta on torrent, and then send your feedback here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
I believe in bending the rules when it is of benefit for everyone.
"DieStimme" wrote in message Is there any way for me to become a part of a Windows Vista Beta testing group? I'd really like to try out the new OS and give my feedback.

Yeh, this is deffo. not the way to go around it :o(
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "SAM-R" wrote in message

Yes but you did not mention that torrents do not come with an activation key and are only good for 14 days. "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message The great thing about usenet is that you can speak freely... although the MVPs wont like the following:
You can become a SELF PROCLAIMED beta tester finding the beta on torrent, and then send your feedback here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
I believe in bending the rules when it is of benefit for everyone.
"DieStimme" wrote in message Is there any way for me to become a part of a Windows Vista Beta testing group? I'd really like to try out the new OS and give my feedback.

John; Not just MVPs, no one wanting anything reliable will want Vista for testing from that source . File sharing such as that is a major source of corrupted software. Corrupted files will render anything you may want to contribute virtually worthless. You are really giving Microsoft a very good reason not to accept any input from sources other than from authorized testers.
Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low, can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?
Bending this rule and submitting reports from questionable downloads benefits no one.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

The great thing about usenet is that you can speak freely... although the MVPs wont like the following:
You can become a SELF PROCLAIMED beta tester finding the beta on torrent, and then send your feedback here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
I believe in bending the rules when it is of benefit for everyone.

Hey guys, what did I tell you? An MVP complaining.. so predictable....
Jupiter....
You underestimate the power of torrent. It is not a tool of pirates and hackers alone. Your assumptions are wrong, and they show you have no knowledge of this area. If what you claim is true then the ISO's and other legitimate distributions of software that are using torrent to transfer are all hacked and corrupted. Linux and opensource is using it as we speak to circulate huge amounts of data.
You should learn some more about this medium before saying such things..since it is insulting. You are an MVP too... you should be a pioneer with vision.
Vision to bend the rules to benefit humanity. The establishment does not always know whats best for you. Its full of doubts of what can be done and what should be done.
It is the visionaries that change the world, that bend the rules, that don't listen to everyone's doubts and negativness.
There is a fundamental rule of nature that you must understand and that is not apparent. You can either go against the waves, or you can learn to use them to surf.
Do you understand what I am saying here?
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message

John; Not just MVPs, no one wanting anything reliable will want Vista for testing from that source . File sharing such as that is a major source of corrupted software. Corrupted files will render anything you may want to contribute virtually worthless. You are really giving Microsoft a very good reason not to accept any input from sources other than from authorized testers.
Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low, can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?
Bending this rule and submitting reports from questionable downloads benefits no one.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message The great thing about usenet is that you can speak freely... although the MVPs wont like the following:
You can become a SELF PROCLAIMED beta tester finding the beta on torrent, and then send your feedback here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
I believe in bending the rules when it is of benefit for everyone.

John; "underestimate"? Really? Do they guarantee the integrity of everything distributed by them. If there is such a guarantee, then I do underestimate them. If not, then my caution is valid since there are no assurances. I never said "tool of pirates and hackers alone", buy you just did. I also never said "are all hacked and corrupted", that was also said by you. You paraphrase so poorly, you change the meaning.
What assumptions? What claims? You seem to think I suggest there is no value in those sites. I never said any such thing. My comment was clearly referring to Vista and you seem to try to make it all inclusive .
I notice how you use words such as "alone" and "all" When I said "Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low" That is far from how you found the need to portray my statement. That is clearly not "all" since "high or low" covers an extremely high range. Or can you prove all there 100% clean? I do not know what % is clean, but it is clearly not all. And Vista acquired there is not guaranteed clean.
I also noticed you ignored my question, how convenient. Here it is again "can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?" If you can not, then you can not test with reliability since it may have been corrupted. If you can not test with reliability, that brings into question all related data.
Your story about surf and waves is irrelevant since you seem to ignore the fact there are dangers in many of those areas.
Read my post again...for the first time. Then answer my question.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

Hey guys, what did I tell you? An MVP complaining.. so predictable....
Jupiter....
You underestimate the power of torrent. It is not a tool of pirates and hackers alone. Your assumptions are wrong, and they show you have no knowledge of this area. If what you claim is true then the ISO's and other legitimate distributions of software that are using torrent to transfer are all hacked and corrupted. Linux and opensource is using it as we speak to circulate huge amounts of data.
You should learn some more about this medium before saying such things..since it is insulting. You are an MVP too... you should be a pioneer with vision.
Vision to bend the rules to benefit humanity. The establishment does not always know whats best for you. Its full of doubts of what can be done and what should be done.
It is the visionaries that change the world, that bend the rules, that don't listen to everyone's doubts and negativness.
There is a fundamental rule of nature that you must understand and that is not apparent. You can either go against the waves, or you can learn to use them to surf.
Do you understand what I am saying here?
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message John; Not just MVPs, no one wanting anything reliable will want Vista for testing from that source . File sharing such as that is a major source of corrupted software. Corrupted files will render anything you may want to contribute virtually worthless. You are really giving Microsoft a very good reason not to accept any input from sources other than from authorized testers.
Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low, can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?
Bending this rule and submitting reports from questionable downloads benefits no one.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message The great thing about usenet is that you can speak freely... although the MVPs wont like the following:
You can become a SELF PROCLAIMED beta tester finding the beta on torrent, and then send your feedback here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
I believe in bending the rules when it is of benefit for everyone.

Give him a break John - he's only doing what he's doing best, helping out others :o)
-- Zack Whittaker » ZackNET Enterprises: www.zacknet.co.uk » MSBlog on ResDev: www.msblog.org » Vista Knowledge Base: www.vistabase.co.uk » This mailing is provided "as is" with no warranties, and confers no rights. All opinions expressed are those of myself unless stated so, and not of my employer, best friend, Ghandi, my mother or my cat. Glad we cleared that up!
--: Original message follows :-- "John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

Hey guys, what did I tell you? An MVP complaining.. so predictable....
Jupiter....
You underestimate the power of torrent. It is not a tool of pirates and hackers alone. Your assumptions are wrong, and they show you have no knowledge of this area. If what you claim is true then the ISO's and other legitimate distributions of software that are using torrent to transfer are all hacked and corrupted. Linux and opensource is using it as we speak to circulate huge amounts of data.
You should learn some more about this medium before saying such things..since it is insulting. You are an MVP too... you should be a pioneer with vision.
Vision to bend the rules to benefit humanity. The establishment does not always know whats best for you. Its full of doubts of what can be done and what should be done.
It is the visionaries that change the world, that bend the rules, that don't listen to everyone's doubts and negativness.
There is a fundamental rule of nature that you must understand and that is not apparent. You can either go against the waves, or you can learn to use them to surf.
Do you understand what I am saying here?
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message John; Not just MVPs, no one wanting anything reliable will want Vista for testing from that source . File sharing such as that is a major source of corrupted software. Corrupted files will render anything you may want to contribute virtually worthless. You are really giving Microsoft a very good reason not to accept any input from sources other than from authorized testers.
Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low, can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?
Bending this rule and submitting reports from questionable downloads benefits no one.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message The great thing about usenet is that you can speak freely... although the MVPs wont like the following:
You can become a SELF PROCLAIMED beta tester finding the beta on torrent, and then send your feedback here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
I believe in bending the rules when it is of benefit for everyone.

"DieStimme" wrote in message

Is there any way for me to become a part of a Windows Vista Beta testing group? I'd really like to try out the new OS and give my feedback.

It's really "dumbed down." Most configuration stuff is buried a few extra layers deep, compared to XP. I can see that the interface has been designed with user productivity in mind, instead of computer use.
In other words, put the icons you always use on your desktop and just use those.

When I say something, its not something I just blabber out, without depth of thought.
No I will not guarantee anything. But I don't have to, and I shouldn't. Let me explain.....
1) Why I cannot guarantee, and I don't have to. We are living in times of change, the quantum mechanics age in apposed to the Euclidian logic. Everything is in flux. There is no guarantee, only a statistical possibility.
I say that there is a very good statistical possibility that files transferred with torrent are good. Why? Because if they have problems then the first people downloading them delete them, so then there are no people sharing the file. Furthermore there are comment areas underneath a torrent links, that people discuss... its very easy to find out what is good or not.
If MS was smart and really cared about getting the maximal feedback, they would share the beta in torrent themselves, and make a very detailed site with questions to the users. Or even embed the questionnaire inside the beta as a home page of internet explorer. Then they would make statistical analysis of those data and see what people like or not. Yes it would take a big team to handle the amount of information.. but hey.. I think MS could pull it off.
A version of windows is so important that it should be seen as a project equivalent to a space mission. The whole world is affected by its choices.
That's what I mean by ridding the wave... torrent is here to stay, smart people take advantage of it and use it as a tool, instead of ignoring it or fighting it. Perhaps you will be suprized in the future to see that MS will indeed use torrents. In this case, please remember that I said it first!
2) Why I should not guarantee. Taking a calculated risk is something people need to do to expand their horizons... If this was not so, then all the people that have changed the world for the better would have been lost in time, and we would not have the benefits of their personal courage and vision. Columbus? The write brothers? there are so many.... They didn't have guarantees, all the world around them thought they were crazy..
The very technology you use today is the product of geeky teenage guys, most of them "hackers" who wanted to have a cheap computer to play with at home. These guys did not follow the established rule that said that a computer is a thing for super scientists and the equipment is the size of several rooms, and the cost is millions of dollars. They are the ones who made the personal computer a reality (starting from Apple). Hey even Bill Gates was around at that time, a kid, curious, learning. Did these people have guarantees???? Are you kidding? They never imagined the way the computer world would change!
It is often that advancement comes from the common guy who has enthusiasm, not from the corporate suits with the millions of their dollars. This is the guarantee I can give, based on all of history.
Must I point to you this picture? http://www.winfreestuff.com/images/nemail/funpics/fandp/invest_big.jpg
Would You have invested?


"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message

John; "underestimate"? Really? Do they guarantee the integrity of everything distributed by them. If there is such a guarantee, then I do underestimate them. If not, then my caution is valid since there are no assurances. I never said "tool of pirates and hackers alone", buy you just did. I also never said "are all hacked and corrupted", that was also said by you. You paraphrase so poorly, you change the meaning.
What assumptions? What claims? You seem to think I suggest there is no value in those sites. I never said any such thing. My comment was clearly referring to Vista and you seem to try to make it all inclusive .
I notice how you use words such as "alone" and "all" When I said "Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low" That is far from how you found the need to portray my statement. That is clearly not "all" since "high or low" covers an extremely high range. Or can you prove all there 100% clean? I do not know what % is clean, but it is clearly not all. And Vista acquired there is not guaranteed clean.
I also noticed you ignored my question, how convenient. Here it is again "can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?" If you can not, then you can not test with reliability since it may have been corrupted. If you can not test with reliability, that brings into question all related data.
Your story about surf and waves is irrelevant since you seem to ignore the fact there are dangers in many of those areas.
Read my post again...for the first time. Then answer my question.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey guys, what did I tell you? An MVP complaining.. so predictable....
Jupiter....
You underestimate the power of torrent. It is not a tool of pirates and hackers alone. Your assumptions are wrong, and they show you have no knowledge of this area. If what you claim is true then the ISO's and other legitimate distributions of software that are using torrent to transfer are all hacked and corrupted. Linux and opensource is using it as we speak to circulate huge amounts of data.
You should learn some more about this medium before saying such things..since it is insulting. You are an MVP too... you should be a pioneer with vision.
Vision to bend the rules to benefit humanity. The establishment does not always know whats best for you. Its full of doubts of what can be done and what should be done.
It is the visionaries that change the world, that bend the rules, that don't listen to everyone's doubts and negativness.
There is a fundamental rule of nature that you must understand and that is not apparent. You can either go against the waves, or you can learn to use them to surf.
Do you understand what I am saying here?
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message John; Not just MVPs, no one wanting anything reliable will want Vista for testing from that source . File sharing such as that is a major source of corrupted software. Corrupted files will render anything you may want to contribute virtually worthless. You are really giving Microsoft a very good reason not to accept any input from sources other than from authorized testers.
Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low, can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?
Bending this rule and submitting reports from questionable downloads benefits no one.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message The great thing about usenet is that you can speak freely... although the MVPs wont like the following:
You can become a SELF PROCLAIMED beta tester finding the beta on torrent, and then send your feedback here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
I believe in bending the rules when it is of benefit for everyone.

That's Microsoft, eh? Cute. Would Jupiter have invested? Heh heh. Sure he would have ..
I didn't. At the time I was thirteen or fourteen, bullied and frightened of life and not yet made some of my biggest mistakes. I hardly had any money to invest and I didn't even know there was a Microsoft. Ten years later I became vaguely aware there was a Microsoft ... there was a line when the PCXT machine booted that said MS-DOS 3.1 Copyright Microsoft Corporation blah blah. The only reason the C:\> prompt existed, as far as I was concerned, was so I could type ww then Enter to get Word Wand running. But other than that, Microsoft just wasn't on me radar until 1995 .. 1995 .. what happened that year anyway?
John Jay Smith wrote:

This is the guarantee I can give, based on all of history.
Must I point to you this picture? http://www.winfreestuff.com/images/nemail/funpics/fandp/invest_big.jpg
Would You have invested?

"Noozer" wrote in message

"DieStimme" wrote in message Is there any way for me to become a part of a Windows Vista Beta testing group? I'd really like to try out the new OS and give my feedback.
It's really "dumbed down." Most configuration stuff is buried a few extra layers deep, compared to XP. I can see that the interface has been designed with user productivity in mind, instead of computer use.
In other words, put the icons you always use on your desktop and just use those.
they really do need to open up betas to more people so that consumers can

provide feedback and there can be less bugs when the programs are released like office, Internet explorer and windows. I'd even pay $50 for the right to beta test software if it came down to it.

The only time they did that (I think) was when Windows NT was a $69 beta.
Larry
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

"Noozer" wrote in message
"DieStimme" wrote in message Is there any way for me to become a part of a Windows Vista Beta testing group? I'd really like to try out the new OS and give my feedback.
It's really "dumbed down." Most configuration stuff is buried a few extra layers deep, compared to XP. I can see that the interface has been designed with user productivity in mind, instead of computer use.
In other words, put the icons you always use on your desktop and just use those.
they really do need to open up betas to more people so that consumers can provide feedback and there can be less bugs when the programs are released like office, Internet explorer and windows. I'd even pay $50 for the right to beta test software if it came down to it.

John; The point is Beta software from unauthorized sources is unreliable. No one can guarantee it is OK. Since the source is not reputable for distributing Vista Beta, all data derived is questionable at best.
"If MS was smart and really cared about getting the maximal feedback..." Resources are limited, even for Microsoft. Microsoft is already expending vast resources on the Beta. Exactly how much more is enough? Can you give a precise answer? Once you think there is enough, how about the next person that does not? Where does it end. Since resources are limited, there is only so much data Microsoft can analyze. My guess is Microsoft is already getting near" maximal feedback" for the resources dedicated to Vista. Should more resources be expended? I don' know. But I do know it is Microsoft's Beta and the owner makes such decisions.
Vista Beta started with about 10,000 and ramped up a lot since then. Beta testers come from all over the world with varied experience levels in a wide variety of fields including but not limited to doctors, homemakers, trades people, educators etc. Just about all experience levels with computers. Additionally there are a large number of Tech Net and MSDN subscribers with access the Vista.
If you want to play with Vista and download it from an illegitimate source, fine, but do not ask me or anyone else to believe with certainty your pirated copy and thus data is good while you have no such assurance yourself. Unreliable data is often worse than no data at all.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message

When I say something, its not something I just blabber out, without depth of thought.
No I will not guarantee anything. But I don't have to, and I shouldn't. Let me explain.....
1) Why I cannot guarantee, and I don't have to. We are living in times of change, the quantum mechanics age in apposed to the Euclidian logic. Everything is in flux. There is no guarantee, only a statistical possibility.
I say that there is a very good statistical possibility that files transferred with torrent are good. Why? Because if they have problems then the first people downloading them delete them, so then there are no people sharing the file. Furthermore there are comment areas underneath a torrent links, that people discuss... its very easy to find out what is good or not.
If MS was smart and really cared about getting the maximal feedback, they would share the beta in torrent themselves, and make a very detailed site with questions to the users. Or even embed the questionnaire inside the beta as a home page of internet explorer. Then they would make statistical analysis of those data and see what people like or not. Yes it would take a big team to handle the amount of information.. but hey.. I think MS could pull it off.
A version of windows is so important that it should be seen as a project equivalent to a space mission. The whole world is affected by its choices.
That's what I mean by ridding the wave... torrent is here to stay, smart people take advantage of it and use it as a tool, instead of ignoring it or fighting it. Perhaps you will be suprized in the future to see that MS will indeed use torrents. In this case, please remember that I said it first!
2) Why I should not guarantee. Taking a calculated risk is something people need to do to expand their horizons... If this was not so, then all the people that have changed the world for the better would have been lost in time, and we would not have the benefits of their personal courage and vision. Columbus? The write brothers? there are so many.... They didn't have guarantees, all the world around them thought they were crazy..
The very technology you use today is the product of geeky teenage guys, most of them "hackers" who wanted to have a cheap computer to play with at home. These guys did not follow the established rule that said that a computer is a thing for super scientists and the equipment is the size of several rooms, and the cost is millions of dollars. They are the ones who made the personal computer a reality (starting from Apple). Hey even Bill Gates was around at that time, a kid, curious, learning. Did these people have guarantees???? Are you kidding? They never imagined the way the computer world would change!
It is often that advancement comes from the common guy who has enthusiasm, not from the corporate suits with the millions of their dollars. This is the guarantee I can give, based on all of history.
Must I point to you this picture? http://www.winfreestuff.com/images/nemail/funpics/fandp/invest_big.jpg
Would You have invested?


"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message John; "underestimate"? Really? Do they guarantee the integrity of everything distributed by them. If there is such a guarantee, then I do underestimate them. If not, then my caution is valid since there are no assurances. I never said "tool of pirates and hackers alone", buy you just did. I also never said "are all hacked and corrupted", that was also said by you. You paraphrase so poorly, you change the meaning.
What assumptions? What claims? You seem to think I suggest there is no value in those sites. I never said any such thing. My comment was clearly referring to Vista and you seem to try to make it all inclusive .
I notice how you use words such as "alone" and "all" When I said "Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low" That is far from how you found the need to portray my statement. That is clearly not "all" since "high or low" covers an extremely high range. Or can you prove all there 100% clean? I do not know what % is clean, but it is clearly not all. And Vista acquired there is not guaranteed clean.
I also noticed you ignored my question, how convenient. Here it is again "can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?" If you can not, then you can not test with reliability since it may have been corrupted. If you can not test with reliability, that brings into question all related data.
Your story about surf and waves is irrelevant since you seem to ignore the fact there are dangers in many of those areas.
Read my post again...for the first time. Then answer my question.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey guys, what did I tell you? An MVP complaining.. so predictable....
Jupiter....
You underestimate the power of torrent. It is not a tool of pirates and hackers alone. Your assumptions are wrong, and they show you have no knowledge of this area. If what you claim is true then the ISO's and other legitimate distributions of software that are using torrent to transfer are all hacked and corrupted. Linux and opensource is using it as we speak to circulate huge amounts of data.
You should learn some more about this medium before saying such things..since it is insulting. You are an MVP too... you should be a pioneer with vision.
Vision to bend the rules to benefit humanity. The establishment does not always know whats best for you. Its full of doubts of what can be done and what should be done.
It is the visionaries that change the world, that bend the rules, that don't listen to everyone's doubts and negativness.
There is a fundamental rule of nature that you must understand and that is not apparent. You can either go against the waves, or you can learn to use them to surf.
Do you understand what I am saying here?
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message John; Not just MVPs, no one wanting anything reliable will want Vista for testing from that source . File sharing such as that is a major source of corrupted software. Corrupted files will render anything you may want to contribute virtually worthless. You are really giving Microsoft a very good reason not to accept any input from sources other than from authorized testers.
Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low, can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?
Bending this rule and submitting reports from questionable downloads benefits no one.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message The great thing about usenet is that you can speak freely... although the MVPs wont like the following:
You can become a SELF PROCLAIMED beta tester finding the beta on torrent, and then send your feedback here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
I believe in bending the rules when it is of benefit for everyone.

Michael; Subscribing to TechNet or Microsoft and get Vista, but not as many builds at the Technical Beta testers but a lot more than $50.
"they really do need to open up betas to more people" Exactly how many more? What is a good number of Vista Beta testers? Precisely much resources should Microsoft dedicate to Vista? Right now consumers all over the world with very diverse computer experience are already Beta testers.
Register on Connect: http://connect.microsoft.com/ Find available Betas that interest you. Participate and make yourself known to the Microsoft Beta community. Do not over due it to the point you neglect some you have applied or you may get a result opposite than intended. That way when another Beta you like comes around, you have a better chance of being selected. Even if not selected, you may already be acquaintenane with someone who can make it happen. But for Vista, it is probably to late.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

they really do need to open up betas to more people so that consumers can provide feedback and there can be less bugs when the programs are released like office, Internet explorer and windows. I'd even pay $50 for the right to beta test software if it came down to it.

I suspect MS is getting lots of feedback now from various Beta/MSDN testers. Opening it up to the public in it's current form has the potential for lots of negative knee-jerk from those folks. They need to fix a whole lot more before they consider releasing it to any wider audience.
Ed
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

"Noozer" wrote in message
"DieStimme" wrote in message Is there any way for me to become a part of a Windows Vista Beta testing group? I'd really like to try out the new OS and give my feedback.
It's really "dumbed down." Most configuration stuff is buried a few extra layers deep, compared to XP. I can see that the interface has been designed with user productivity in mind, instead of computer use.
In other words, put the icons you always use on your desktop and just use those.
they really do need to open up betas to more people so that consumers can provide feedback and there can be less bugs when the programs are released like office, Internet explorer and windows. I'd even pay $50 for the right to beta test software if it came down to it.

"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message

Michael; Subscribing to TechNet or Microsoft and get Vista, but not as many builds at the Technical Beta testers but a lot more than $50.
"they really do need to open up betas to more people" Exactly how many more? What is a good number of Vista Beta testers? Precisely much resources should Microsoft dedicate to Vista? Right now consumers all over the world with very diverse computer experience are already Beta testers.
Register on Connect: http://connect.microsoft.com/ Find available Betas that interest you. Participate and make yourself known to the Microsoft Beta community. Do not over due it to the point you neglect some you have applied or you may get a result opposite than intended. That way when another Beta you like comes around, you have a better chance of being selected. Even if not selected, you may already be acquaintenane with someone who can make it happen. But for Vista, it is probably to late.
Open it up like internet explorer is or let people pay to test it. As for

testing stuff there is nothing on connect that i know how to test. I have visual studio and am in the beta but I stink at programming. Actually I should drop out of that beta because I can't even find the discs for visual studio I bought from my school last year. Anyways I do belong to MSDN now but that's not the point. You shouldn't HAVE to pay $700 to test a Operating System. If you are interested and qualified you should be able to test it for a reasonable amount of money or for free. I'd say open the beta programs to around 2-3million people like they will for the consumer preview program.

there is a thing called hash checksum that helps you compare a file if it is an exact copy of the original
this is a way to be sure that the source is reliable.
There are ways. Its just a matter of choice.
after so much time (months and months) {can you tell me when longhorn started?} of beta testing they come up with a CTP 308 that had problems I could see in 10 minutes of use.
I cannot believe that 10.000 people are blind and stupid.
So things are not quite as you imagine them. Either there are not so many beta testers, or they are just plain ignoring them!
(Now its a different scenario.. they took all the crucial decisions alone, cut Vista to pieces, took out all the innovation because they didnt have time, and now they need the beta testers to help clean up the details. That sucks!)
-- "What concerns me is not the way things are, but rather the way people think things are." - Epictetus 55-135
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message

John; The point is Beta software from unauthorized sources is unreliable. No one can guarantee it is OK. Since the source is not reputable for distributing Vista Beta, all data derived is questionable at best.
"If MS was smart and really cared about getting the maximal feedback..." Resources are limited, even for Microsoft. Microsoft is already expending vast resources on the Beta. Exactly how much more is enough? Can you give a precise answer? Once you think there is enough, how about the next person that does not? Where does it end. Since resources are limited, there is only so much data Microsoft can analyze. My guess is Microsoft is already getting near" maximal feedback" for the resources dedicated to Vista. Should more resources be expended? I don' know. But I do know it is Microsoft's Beta and the owner makes such decisions.
Vista Beta started with about 10,000 and ramped up a lot since then. Beta testers come from all over the world with varied experience levels in a wide variety of fields including but not limited to doctors, homemakers, trades people, educators etc. Just about all experience levels with computers. Additionally there are a large number of Tech Net and MSDN subscribers with access the Vista.
If you want to play with Vista and download it from an illegitimate source, fine, but do not ask me or anyone else to believe with certainty your pirated copy and thus data is good while you have no such assurance yourself. Unreliable data is often worse than no data at all.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message When I say something, its not something I just blabber out, without depth of thought.
No I will not guarantee anything. But I don't have to, and I shouldn't. Let me explain.....
1) Why I cannot guarantee, and I don't have to. We are living in times of change, the quantum mechanics age in apposed to the Euclidian logic. Everything is in flux. There is no guarantee, only a statistical possibility.
I say that there is a very good statistical possibility that files transferred with torrent are good. Why? Because if they have problems then the first people downloading them delete them, so then there are no people sharing the file. Furthermore there are comment areas underneath a torrent links, that people discuss... its very easy to find out what is good or not.
If MS was smart and really cared about getting the maximal feedback, they would share the beta in torrent themselves, and make a very detailed site with questions to the users. Or even embed the questionnaire inside the beta as a home page of internet explorer. Then they would make statistical analysis of those data and see what people like or not. Yes it would take a big team to handle the amount of information.. but hey.. I think MS could pull it off.
A version of windows is so important that it should be seen as a project equivalent to a space mission. The whole world is affected by its choices.
That's what I mean by ridding the wave... torrent is here to stay, smart people take advantage of it and use it as a tool, instead of ignoring it or fighting it. Perhaps you will be suprized in the future to see that MS will indeed use torrents. In this case, please remember that I said it first!
2) Why I should not guarantee. Taking a calculated risk is something people need to do to expand their horizons... If this was not so, then all the people that have changed the world for the better would have been lost in time, and we would not have the benefits of their personal courage and vision. Columbus? The write brothers? there are so many.... They didn't have guarantees, all the world around them thought they were crazy..
The very technology you use today is the product of geeky teenage guys, most of them "hackers" who wanted to have a cheap computer to play with at home. These guys did not follow the established rule that said that a computer is a thing for super scientists and the equipment is the size of several rooms, and the cost is millions of dollars. They are the ones who made the personal computer a reality (starting from Apple). Hey even Bill Gates was around at that time, a kid, curious, learning. Did these people have guarantees???? Are you kidding? They never imagined the way the computer world would change!
It is often that advancement comes from the common guy who has enthusiasm, not from the corporate suits with the millions of their dollars. This is the guarantee I can give, based on all of history.
Must I point to you this picture? http://www.winfreestuff.com/images/nemail/funpics/fandp/invest_big.jpg
Would You have invested?


"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message John; "underestimate"? Really? Do they guarantee the integrity of everything distributed by them. If there is such a guarantee, then I do underestimate them. If not, then my caution is valid since there are no assurances. I never said "tool of pirates and hackers alone", buy you just did. I also never said "are all hacked and corrupted", that was also said by you. You paraphrase so poorly, you change the meaning.
What assumptions? What claims? You seem to think I suggest there is no value in those sites. I never said any such thing. My comment was clearly referring to Vista and you seem to try to make it all inclusive .
I notice how you use words such as "alone" and "all" When I said "Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low" That is far from how you found the need to portray my statement. That is clearly not "all" since "high or low" covers an extremely high range. Or can you prove all there 100% clean? I do not know what % is clean, but it is clearly not all. And Vista acquired there is not guaranteed clean.
I also noticed you ignored my question, how convenient. Here it is again "can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?" If you can not, then you can not test with reliability since it may have been corrupted. If you can not test with reliability, that brings into question all related data.
Your story about surf and waves is irrelevant since you seem to ignore the fact there are dangers in many of those areas.
Read my post again...for the first time. Then answer my question.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey guys, what did I tell you? An MVP complaining.. so predictable....
Jupiter....
You underestimate the power of torrent. It is not a tool of pirates and hackers alone. Your assumptions are wrong, and they show you have no knowledge of this area. If what you claim is true then the ISO's and other legitimate distributions of software that are using torrent to transfer are all hacked and corrupted. Linux and opensource is using it as we speak to circulate huge amounts of data.
You should learn some more about this medium before saying such things..since it is insulting. You are an MVP too... you should be a pioneer with vision.
Vision to bend the rules to benefit humanity. The establishment does not always know whats best for you. Its full of doubts of what can be done and what should be done.
It is the visionaries that change the world, that bend the rules, that don't listen to everyone's doubts and negativness.
There is a fundamental rule of nature that you must understand and that is not apparent. You can either go against the waves, or you can learn to use them to surf.
Do you understand what I am saying here?
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message John; Not just MVPs, no one wanting anything reliable will want Vista for testing from that source . File sharing such as that is a major source of corrupted software. Corrupted files will render anything you may want to contribute virtually worthless. You are really giving Microsoft a very good reason not to accept any input from sources other than from authorized testers.
Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low, can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?
Bending this rule and submitting reports from questionable downloads benefits no one.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message The great thing about usenet is that you can speak freely... although the MVPs wont like the following:
You can become a SELF PROCLAIMED beta tester finding the beta on torrent, and then send your feedback here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
I believe in bending the rules when it is of benefit for everyone.

Michael; Send your suggestion to Microsoft, it is their program and their choice. Since these are peer to peer newsgroups and not officially monitored by Microsoft, your message may never get to Microsoft.
As for open it up, the public Beta is rumoured to be available soon, then anyone who wants Vista Beta can have it. The common rumour is Beta 2.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"michael e dziatkowicz" wrote in message

Open it up like internet explorer is or let people pay to test it. As for testing stuff there is nothing on connect that i know how to test. I have visual studio and am in the beta but I stink at programming. Actually I should drop out of that beta because I can't even find the discs for visual studio I bought from my school last year. Anyways I do belong to MSDN now but that's not the point. You shouldn't HAVE to pay $700 to test a Operating System. If you are interested and qualified you should be able to test it for a reasonable amount of money or for free. I'd say open the beta programs to around 2-3million people like they will for the consumer preview program.

That answers a lot of questions, Mr. Jones, but the one on my mind is "Would you have invested?"
:)
Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:

John; The point is Beta software from unauthorized sources is unreliable. No one can guarantee it is OK. Since the source is not reputable for distributing Vista Beta, all data derived is questionable at best.
"If MS was smart and really cared about getting the maximal feedback..." Resources are limited, even for Microsoft. Microsoft is already expending vast resources on the Beta. Exactly how much more is enough? Can you give a precise answer? Once you think there is enough, how about the next person that does not? Where does it end. Since resources are limited, there is only so much data Microsoft can analyze. My guess is Microsoft is already getting near" maximal feedback" for the resources dedicated to Vista. Should more resources be expended? I don' know. But I do know it is Microsoft's Beta and the owner makes such decisions.
Vista Beta started with about 10,000 and ramped up a lot since then. Beta testers come from all over the world with varied experience levels in a wide variety of fields including but not limited to doctors, homemakers, trades people, educators etc. Just about all experience levels with computers. Additionally there are a large number of Tech Net and MSDN subscribers with access the Vista.
If you want to play with Vista and download it from an illegitimate source, fine, but do not ask me or anyone else to believe with certainty your pirated copy and thus data is good while you have no such assurance yourself. Unreliable data is often worse than no data at all.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message When I say something, its not something I just blabber out, without depth of thought.
No I will not guarantee anything. But I don't have to, and I shouldn't. Let me explain.....
1) Why I cannot guarantee, and I don't have to. We are living in times of change, the quantum mechanics age in apposed to the Euclidian logic. Everything is in flux. There is no guarantee, only a statistical possibility.
I say that there is a very good statistical possibility that files transferred with torrent are good. Why? Because if they have problems then the first people downloading them delete them, so then there are no people sharing the file. Furthermore there are comment areas underneath a torrent links, that people discuss... its very easy to find out what is good or not.
If MS was smart and really cared about getting the maximal feedback, they would share the beta in torrent themselves, and make a very detailed site with questions to the users. Or even embed the questionnaire inside the beta as a home page of internet explorer. Then they would make statistical analysis of those data and see what people like or not. Yes it would take a big team to handle the amount of information.. but hey.. I think MS could pull it off.
A version of windows is so important that it should be seen as a project equivalent to a space mission. The whole world is affected by its choices.
That's what I mean by ridding the wave... torrent is here to stay, smart people take advantage of it and use it as a tool, instead of ignoring it or fighting it. Perhaps you will be suprized in the future to see that MS will indeed use torrents. In this case, please remember that I said it first!
2) Why I should not guarantee. Taking a calculated risk is something people need to do to expand their horizons... If this was not so, then all the people that have changed the world for the better would have been lost in time, and we would not have the benefits of their personal courage and vision. Columbus? The write brothers? there are so many.... They didn't have guarantees, all the world around them thought they were crazy..
The very technology you use today is the product of geeky teenage guys, most of them "hackers" who wanted to have a cheap computer to play with at home. These guys did not follow the established rule that said that a computer is a thing for super scientists and the equipment is the size of several rooms, and the cost is millions of dollars. They are the ones who made the personal computer a reality (starting from Apple). Hey even Bill Gates was around at that time, a kid, curious, learning. Did these people have guarantees???? Are you kidding? They never imagined the way the computer world would change!
It is often that advancement comes from the common guy who has enthusiasm, not from the corporate suits with the millions of their dollars. This is the guarantee I can give, based on all of history.
Must I point to you this picture? http://www.winfreestuff.com/images/nemail/funpics/fandp/invest_big.jpg
Would You have invested?


"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message John; "underestimate"? Really? Do they guarantee the integrity of everything distributed by them. If there is such a guarantee, then I do underestimate them. If not, then my caution is valid since there are no assurances. I never said "tool of pirates and hackers alone", buy you just did. I also never said "are all hacked and corrupted", that was also said by you. You paraphrase so poorly, you change the meaning.
What assumptions? What claims? You seem to think I suggest there is no value in those sites. I never said any such thing. My comment was clearly referring to Vista and you seem to try to make it all inclusive .
I notice how you use words such as "alone" and "all" When I said "Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low" That is far from how you found the need to portray my statement. That is clearly not "all" since "high or low" covers an extremely high range. Or can you prove all there 100% clean? I do not know what % is clean, but it is clearly not all. And Vista acquired there is not guaranteed clean.
I also noticed you ignored my question, how convenient. Here it is again "can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?" If you can not, then you can not test with reliability since it may have been corrupted. If you can not test with reliability, that brings into question all related data.
Your story about surf and waves is irrelevant since you seem to ignore the fact there are dangers in many of those areas.
Read my post again...for the first time. Then answer my question.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message Hey guys, what did I tell you? An MVP complaining.. so predictable....
Jupiter....
You underestimate the power of torrent. It is not a tool of pirates and hackers alone. Your assumptions are wrong, and they show you have no knowledge of this area. If what you claim is true then the ISO's and other legitimate distributions of software that are using torrent to transfer are all hacked and corrupted. Linux and opensource is using it as we speak to circulate huge amounts of data.
You should learn some more about this medium before saying such things..since it is insulting. You are an MVP too... you should be a pioneer with vision.
Vision to bend the rules to benefit humanity. The establishment does not always know whats best for you. Its full of doubts of what can be done and what should be done.
It is the visionaries that change the world, that bend the rules, that don't listen to everyone's doubts and negativness.
There is a fundamental rule of nature that you must understand and that is not apparent. You can either go against the waves, or you can learn to use them to surf.
Do you understand what I am saying here?
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote in message John; Not just MVPs, no one wanting anything reliable will want Vista for testing from that source . File sharing such as that is a major source of corrupted software. Corrupted files will render anything you may want to contribute virtually worthless. You are really giving Microsoft a very good reason not to accept any input from sources other than from authorized testers.
Whether the % of deliberately corrupted software is high or low, can you PERSONALLY guarantee that if I download Vista from there or any other file sharing, that my stolen copy will be free of corruption?
Bending this rule and submitting reports from questionable downloads benefits no one.
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"John Jay Smith" <-> wrote in message The great thing about usenet is that you can speak freely... although the MVPs wont like the following:
You can become a SELF PROCLAIMED beta tester finding the beta on torrent, and then send your feedback here http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/sentiments/default.mspx
I believe in bending the rules when it is of benefit for everyone.

I was not really investing at the time so I honestly don't know. Microsoft probably would have rated as a high risk investment at that time. Many things often come from high risk investments and a few are: 1. Huge return 2. Quick and complete loss. Etc.
Now if you had asked "Should I have..."
-- Jupiter Jones [MVP] http://www3.telus.net/dandemar http://www.dts-l.org
"Workshop" wrote in message

That answers a lot of questions, Mr. Jones, but the one on my mind is "Would you have invested?"
:)

Hi, Did Microsoft open the beta program? and which version is it?

"Franklin" wrote in message

Hi, Did Microsoft open the beta program? and which version is it?

A day late and a dollar short. ;-)
-Michael

"MICHAEL" wrote in message

"Franklin" wrote in message Hi, Did Microsoft open the beta program? and which version is it?
A day late and a dollar short. ;-)
-Michael

Hi,

I have it already, But I thought I saw it again.